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Remeber that all prices are Canadian, and not American
If I had a nickel for every time people blurt out to me to “Get a Mac”, well…
Anyway, I decided to do a quick check on prices lately, because I keep hearing things like:
“The prices aren’t so different anymore. Macs are close to the same price as a PC”.
Ok, I’ll bite.
My current machine’s getting a little long in the tooth (2 years in January), so next year sometime it might be time for an upgrade. I’m looking around at prices. As usual, I’m price comparing a Mac as well. Let’s assume I want a Mac Pro for my upgrade. I also want to stress that I’d be keeping all my major peripherals, such as my dual 24″ LCDs, speakers, mouse, keyboard etc.
So to make this perfectly clear, I’m pricing out JUST THE BOX, nothing else. This also does not include roughly $5000 of software I’d need to ditch, or upgrade to Mac versions. Let’s leave that out for now. Strictly the computer, ok?
My Current specs:
CPU: 2.4Ghz Quad Core
RAM: 8 Gigs
HD: 2x RAID, 1.5TB WD, 500Gig WD. (4 drives, 2.150 TeraBytes)
DVD/CD: Lite-on 20 burner
Audio: Soundblaster Audigy 2 (really needs to be upgraded)
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
This system cost < $2000 originally, probably another $500 I’ve added since then in updgrades. So,
My current system: Approx $2500 CDN
I’m also assuming I’m on a bit of a budget (I am), so I priced out something slightly better (2.93Ghz processor vs 2.4Ghz). Same RAM (8 gigs), only 1 HD, because I can move a bunch of them over to a Mac. I’d also need a capable audio card later, because my Audigy wouldn’t work on the Mac. We’ll leave that out too. I’ve chosen the identical Graphics card I have in my PC as well. No upgrade there.
Ok, now here’s the Mac Pro I spec’d out:
# One 2.93GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
# 8GB (4x2GB)
# Mac Pro RAID Card (this is currently built into my MB)
# 640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
# ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
# One 18x SuperDrive
Note: The “SuperDrive” is slower than the 3 year old Lite-On that I currently have (20x), and doesn’t do Blu-ray.
Mac Pro Cost: 4879.00 CDN
This is the cost to buy a Mac Pro that’s only *slightly* better than my current rock-solid PC. “Better” is also subjective, because even though the Mac CPU (Intel XEON) is a bit faster, the Core i7 is a better chip, and I can overclock the hell out of my chip, on Air Cooling with a $60 heatsink/fan up to 3.2 Ghz, which would technically make my old machine a lot faster than the new Mac.
So, a machine that is quite similar to what I already have, is pretty damn close to TWICE the cost of what I bought almost 2 years ago. WTF?!?!?! To buy these same parts again now would probably be a lot cheaper than that.
Ok, now for a new PC that is a definite upgrade to what I have. Throwing budget out here, and going for high performance on most things:
(Prices from CBIT.ca)
Case: Coolermaster CM Stacker: $250
CPU: Intel Core i7 @ 3.066Ghz: $697.95
RAM: OCZ 8gigs: $200 (approx. The high end RAM comes in 6Gigs, so I added a bit for 8Gigs)
Video: ATI 4890 Vapor (1GB GDDR5): $269.95
Audio: Audiophile 2496: $109.95 (to be fair, I’d need to buy something like this for the Mac too..)
Power Supply: $147.95 (PC Power and Cooling 750 Watt)
Motherboard: Asus Rampage II Extreme: $499.95 (pretty high-end MB)
Hard Drive: Seagate 1.5 TB Drive SATAII at 7200 RPM: $144.95
CD/DVD/BluRay: $152.95
OS: Vista 64 with a free offer for Win7 upgrade: $179.95
Home-built machine with high-end parts Total: $2653.60 CDN
This machine is a large upgrade from what I have, and it’s also a hell of a lot faster than the Mac Pro spec’d out above. It’s probably even cheaper than what I have right now, and probably 3x as fast (damn it!)
Now to be fair, that’s for a machine that I would build. Would take maybe 3 hours of my time. I’ll spec out a top-of-the-line pre-built Dell XPS Desktop as well:
Intel® Core™2 Extreme QX9650 (12MB,3.0GHz, 1333FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-Bit
Microsoft Works
Black Bezel Chassis
3Yr Next Business Day Onsite/In Home Service, CompleteCare and Tech Support
No Monitor
8GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz (4 DIMM)
750GB – 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
CrossFireX, Dual ATI Radeon HD 4870 1024MB
Single Drive: Blu-ray Disc (BD) Burner (Writes to DVD/CD/BD)
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
No Floppy Drive or Media Reader Included
The Dell cost: 3589 CDN. This machine actually has 2 graphics cards, but no Core i7.
1.Twice as much $$ to buy a Mac Pro that’s practically the same as what I already have.
2. Almost half as much as the Mac Pro to build a machine that’s a LOT faster.
3. Still a lot cheaper to buy a crazy-fast Dell XPS.
Now some people are going to say that the Mac is worth all that extra money. Let’s keep in mind that most of the parts I spec’d out are the same or better than what’s in the Mac. The only thing really different is the processor, which is a XEON in the Mac. Many people say that Core i7 is actually better than Xeon in most cases, definitely for gaming.
Let’s also keep in mind than Apple doesn’t actually make hardware. It’s all sourced out, except maybe for the pretty case. You’re spending more money for a pretty case with an apple on it, and great support. I’d pay extra for these things, but NOT TWICE AS MUCH!
Also, I didn’t spec out the top of the line Mac, I simply chose something slightly better than my current machine. If I went balls-out and got everything else the same, but with 2 XEON’s (8 cores), I would get:
# Two 2.93GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
# 8GB (4x2GB)
# Mac Pro RAID Card
# 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
# None
# None
# None
# ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
# One 18x SuperDrive
Mac Pro (Dual XEON) price: 8239.00 CDN
That’s not even in the same ballpark folks!
So why the hell do people buy Mac Pro’s? I can see the point of wanting to pay more for quality. But I MUST STRESS that in the other 2 upgrades (CBIT and DELL), I chose VERY HIGH END parts. Granted, there’s no “kiss your butt” warranty with my own built system, but I do get warranty on all the parts. If you need a warranty, you can get the also kick-ass Dell for $1000.00 more.
Now, if you’re just looking for a laptop, or a less-expensive machine, Macs are cheaper for sure. I’m just talking about MY NEEDS, and what kind of machine I’d need to buy.
Others are going to say, “Well, there’s no worry about viruses and crapware and malware”.
Answer: I’ve never had a problem with any of these on a machine that I built. If you’re worried about this stuff, it’s a WINDOWS problem, not a HARDWARE problem. Go build a machine, or buy the Dell, then put OSX Snow Leopard on it. There you go. Or, join a growing population of people who enjoy free stuff and put Linux on it. No more viruses. Ever.
To all of those people who still ask me why I don’t have a Mac…. Figure it out.
Dan Harper Says:September 17th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
When comparing very high spec PCs vs a Mac Pro, the price differences definitely do become very clear.
However when looking at a MBP / iMac, the difference in price is much narrower – a price you pay for both the OS (obviously entirely subjective, but I don’t want to go back to Windows now), and for massively superior build quality (clear when comparing any MBP against other high-price, high-spec laptops).
May I ask, what do you do that requires the specs you’re paying for? If you’re a web developer (which I can’t help but assume – this being a web dev blog, after-all), surely that’s massively overkill?
Steve Gray Says:September 17th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
We are making an effort to get our department’s high-end del pc machines upgraded to mac pros. In our efforts, I’ve done a LOT of research on not only why we were going to switch to macs, but also the choice in mac products.
We do intense 3d and video renders, ontop of front-end and back-end web design and development. The 8-core mac pros were our best choice in terms of longevity and the kind of work we do.
At home, on the other hand, I have a 3.06Ghz 24″ iMac. I do the same kind of freelance work that I do in my full-time department. I haven’t had any complains with my home machine – it’s been fast enough for 3d and 2d video renders.
I wouldn’t think – even for gaming and video editing, you would need more than that for a home computer.
With expose, the way the processing architecture is laid out, and various other handy tools – the mac OS is the most efficient even when just simply coding front-end development for a client’s website. At my day job, on the high-end $3200 del pc that I work on, it literally takes half as long to get a single task done. The processing isn’t as fast, programs are often freezing or crashing, and I’m welcomed by a blue screen of death at least once every 3 weeks. That’s not just my machine either, that’s all 5 in our department.
I just thought that might help shed some light on how my workflow and experiences have been thus far. I used to be all out PC guy. I was forced to use macs in school, and now I can’t turn back.
Jeffrey Way Says:September 17th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Why spend so much? I bought a $2500 MBP, and it more than handles everything I need.
And I know it’s become a cliche, but I really have found that I can work more quickly on a Mac than on my PC. Trust me – I, not too long ago, used PC exclusively. But, at least for me, it’s the truth. 
presidentua Says:September 17th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
People buy Mac for the same reason that some people buy Bentley 
Brent Scott Says:September 17th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
I do Web design quite a bit, but I also do video/audio production. A MBP would not cut it, as video is super-tedious on slow drives. I need to have RAID.
I’ve never said Macs weren’t fast, the fastest Mac Pro’s are quite quick. However, the point of the article is that doing a point-for-point cost comparison on identical/similar *parts*, yielded twice as much.
People always seem to counter this argument with comments about workflow, usability, crashing, etc. However, these are for the most part about *software*, not hardware, which was what I was comparing. It’s common knowledge that you can somewhat easily install OSX on a PC with some hacking.
So, 1/2 the price for the same parts + OSX86 = ….. A Mac! My point is from a hardware point of view, you’re paying a LOT extra for a pretty box with fruit on it, and a server processor that isn’t really that much better than a kick-ass Core i7 using the same architecture.
If it’s Windows that people hate (which I’m hoping improves with Win7), then buying and overpriced Mac is not the only option. One can always build/buy a high-end PC and put Linux on it. A bit of tweaking and you have something that’s better than the Mac AND the PC.
Apple is buying the same hardware, changing some part names, slapping it in a fancy box, and charging twice as much for it. The lovely OS is not part of the equation here. Apple is really doing the same thing as a company like Alienware, which by the way is cheaper, and looks way cooler… Carefully chosen parts in a nice package with good support. Cool, it’s a good thing, but is it $2500 more of a good thing? I don’t think so.
Again, this discussion doesn’t apply to the MBP’s, which, while still more expensive, are a little closer in price.
Apple’s good marketing has certainly worked for people.
alex Says:September 17th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
I build a $2000+ PC a couple years ago. I still use it frequently but last year I wanted to get a Laptop…
I bought a fairly high end ASUS for about $1500 in late 2007. I love ASUS but I must be honest… I hated this laptop. It came with Vista and it was a PAIN IN THE ASS to get XP on it, apparently you need to slipstream the OS onto the HD using a hacked version of the Windows setup CD (I found it and DLed after days of research). The laptop was clunky, ran hot and overall was not very enjoyable.
I decided since I hadn’t owned a Mac since about 2001, I’d consider giving them another try. This was last October (2008) when the new aluminum unibody model came out. I was instantly impressed by it’s sleek and attractive style and the price wasn’t too bad. I sold my ASUS for about $800 and put it toward my new $1600 MacBook.
Let me just say this… I love it. I very well know that I “overpaid” for the product. I know that I searched a bit harder I could have found a nicer laptop than my old ASUS… but the MacBook is just great. It is a fine piece of machinery. Period. This is why they are so expensive. You will not find any laptop as sleak as the new aluminum MacBooks, they are thin, light, solid. If you grab the corner with one hand and lift the laptop up, it just feels right. If I did this with my old ASUS laptop you could hear a “creaking” sound from the plastic. I know, I know… I could have just searched harder and found a better quality PC laptop but man… I dont know if it’d ever be up to par with the new MacBooks, they’re simply stunning.
PLUS it performs perfectly. Never locks up, no problems. Ive used the bootcamp to load Windows XP on it and played Team Fortress 2 flawlessly.
To each his own but I think if you can afford an Apple computer, it’s worth the extra cash. I know Apple has had it’s lemons in the past (and they were overpriced as well) but if you’re picky with them and wait for the right model, like the aluminum MB… it’s worth every penny. Im not a fanboy btw, I will probably build a new PC tower in the next year or so. Im just saying, I think a computer is a computer as long as you enjoy using it. So get both! PC and Mac can live together in harmony!
Sorry for my ramble, great blog post… but I just think Apple deserves a bit of a rebuttal. The aluminum MBs are quality. Now about the iMacs… I can’t say as I haven’t used one, could be a lemon as I mentioned earlier Apple is known to release some crap here and there and the price never is lowered due to it. 
Mitch Mitchelson Says:September 17th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
You added Apple’s $700 hardware RAID card. Do you need hardware RAID or SAS disks? The Mac Pro supports software RAID (likely just like your current motherboard) right out of the box. You also left a hardware RAID card out of the Dell option.
Why one would ever buy more than the included memory or additional hard drives from Apple is also a mystery to me. These items can be sourced for much less money from other vendors. You also make the mistake of configuring these systems with four sticks of memory instead of in sets of three.
I love your grasp of technology when you say that the Core i7 is a better chip than the Xeon that ships with the Mac Pro. You should probably brush up on what that Xeon chip is.
I really enjoyed your final exaggeration about the price of the eight-core Mac. With the options you selected you say it costs $8,239. That’s funny, when I spec it out the way you did it costs $6,999.
Jeff Says:September 17th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
I’ll agree with most of what this article says, but for most people, not techies, a computer is a social interaction (eg – people yelling at their computers). Apple keeps this in mind when building its products.
This adds hidden value that can’t be see through system specs. People enjoy using their macs since it provides a more pleasant overall experience than most pcs (Why don’t any other laptop have magsafe-styled power adapters?). This “experience” factor single-handily makes iPods more popular than its competitors, which outclass the iPod on “feature” specs.
In my opinion, OSX *is* part of the cost factor. Apple probably subsidizes the cost of building the OS with the higher price of the computer: hardware-buying customers will pay the price to maintain existing, happy customers. For your typical mac, there are less hassles (see “experience” factor above). Getting X86 to work on your pc taints that experience. Besides the hassle of getting it installed [hardware checks anyone?], there’s that back-of-the-mind worry that it might not work tomorrow. These users can run unsupported hardware that Apple verifies it works with.
Also, for the average user: most of the tech specs are gibberish. I’ll still recommend an Apple for most users, despite the fact I still use Windows/Linux. This is like comparing two cars: one recommended by a drag racer and another by the soccer mom.
For you, the choice is right. You already know the ins and outs of a computer. But the average joe won’t. This applies stronger to home-built computers; a self-assemble product is almost always cheaper than its pre-assembled counterpart.
(PS – Checking apple’s stuff on MacPro states the ram is DDR3, not the usual DDR2 on most pc’s; But I have no idea how it effects performance. It’s definitely not worth it for the price bump)
Joren Rapini Says:September 17th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Good luck, you just stepped yourself into a firing zone haha.
I could comment on a million things, but I’d be here all day. The only input I’d like to throw out there: I’ve been using Windows 7 RC1 since June, and it is absolutely incredible.
Richard Says:September 17th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Mac Pro video cards are overpriced (compared to PC versions), few and far between, and mediocre.
Shaun Eidse Says:September 17th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Interesting how a person can make a negative comment about a Mac and people get quite defensive. I find all you Mac boys quite interesting.
First you talk about “Why go for the most expensive one? You can get decent ones for $2500″ $2500! Are you kidding! I can get an incredible PC for that price.
So you like the sleek aluminum look. Nobody else can build a laptop like that eh? Check out the Dell Adamo. Sure it has a stupid name, but it is almost the same size as the Macbook Air.
Then you really make me laugh when you guys all complain about Windows, but go load bootcamp and XP so you can actually run the software that you wanted.
Yes, I also agree that OSX is part of the cost factor, which is why I don’t like it. I understand, they have to spend a ton of money to develop software and when they only have 5-10% (maybe) of the computer market, it takes a while to recoup the cash.
As far as Vista, ya it was a piece of crap. Whoever was in charge of that project should never be allowed in the industry again. That being said, I think Microsoft got something really right with Windows 7. I have been using the beta and RC copies since January, and they are better to use and more stable that Vista ever was. In fact, I think it is better than XP.
Now, don’t get me all wrong. I like Macs, kinda. I like that there is competition. I like that there are choices. I like that there is someone to help keep Microsoft accountable. But as long as the Macworld has the “Better than though” attitude they have been sporting for so many years, they will continue to be the little guy. They need to come down to the real world and be price competitive if they want to make a real run at Micrsoft.
Well, that’s my two cents.
Oh, and by the way. You Mac boys better not get too cocky about your no viruses and no spyware issue. One of these days, some coder is going to set something after you that you won’t be ready for, and it will screw you big time. But you can keep your head in the sand till then if you want. I will just spend a bit of the huge pile of money I have left over from not buying a Mac and get a excellent antivirus program and know I am safe.
Brent Says:September 17th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Ha ha, I love it! I totally agree with you, and look at all the mac users complaining! Defending there supreme autocratic brain asphyxiators who brain wash them. Literally! I say Mac is comparable in the computer world to Scientology is in religion and philosophy. That’s just my take though. Why? Just because you can detect the strange and defensive personalities of the ones who partake in those rulings. Just as much as how the rulers operate in their scary drawn from humanity sort of way.
Shaun Eidse Says:September 17th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Ok, I have never thought of the Scientology comparison but it fits. Hilarious! My hat is off to you sir.
DarenTay Says:September 17th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Wonderfully written bog which is objective. You are brave to have step in the fray hehe
Steve Gray Says:September 17th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
I’m coming from an all-out PC background. I grew up almost my entire life around PCs ever since the second version of Windows. I only started using a mac 3 years ago, as part of a program I was enrolled in made it part of the course to use one.
The virus issue is this: the reason why there aren’t any very harmful viruses (because there actually are some) out there is because of the popularity factor of the Mac, or lack there of. If Macs owned 50% of the marketshare in small and large businesses, we’d be experiencing the same thing. It’s that, and, PC’s aren’t owned by Microsoft. The operating system is. There’s tonnes of 3rd party hardware and software out there, easily created with properly licensing. Apple make most of their own hardware and OS, as well as most of their own core software. Everything’s always compatible. Oh – and there are antivirus programs available for the Mac OS. but… as it stands now, all they do is hunt down PC viruses so that others who might be using a PC on your network don’t get infected.
A few things Apple is good at: Advertising. They’ve always had clever, ballsy advertisements, created by professionals and they’re never afraid to take risks. They have a tonne of failed products, including what people thought as lemon machines. They’ve always had the user in mind, when creating their products though. Mac OSX is surprisingly user-friendly, and thus, efficient with multi-tasking.
I can vouch for the iMac being a great machine. I think it’s the most cost-effective Mac solution if someone were wanting to dive into gaming on the Mac OS, rendering and processing 2d & 3d animation, as well as editing 1080p HD video on the fly. Friends of mine always say “but what if it breaks down? then while it’s being repaired, because it’s an all-in-one design, you have nothing until it’s done?” but… if your pc laptop or tower was broken and you hadn’t the know-how to fix it yourself… once you send it in, all you have is a monitor, keyboard and mouse… is that any better…
I’m excited to try Windows 7. It looks great. I’ve seen it at work (a few ppl are using the beta). Vista was terrible and confusing.
Personally, I’d love to work on both machines. I do a lot of creative work, like 3d, video production, and web design and development. In order to test these websites, I need IE6, 7, and 8 on a PC. For ridiculously fast rendering in Cinema 4d or Maya, a $3,000 PC tower is a killer cost-effective machine that blows through the work no problem. Everything aside from hardcore processing power (all video related work) I use my Mac for. I can fly through answering emails, coding for the web, rendering hd video, testing mobile application development in the iphone sdk, budgeting, invoicing, and designing all at the same time – no problems ever. I haven’t shut off my iMac in about 40+ days now and it has never slowed down once. Never had a single issue, it’s never crashed, never shut off randomly, every new external device i plug in works right away – even when the computer is offline. It’s just great.
I’ve used a brand new dell laptop last year and the battery life on only a 15″ is terrible! I only got 2 1/2 hours of it max, that’s when it’s not processing at all and the screen is set to minimal power. That’s also with a brand new battery, where as the newer Macbooks run for up to 8 hours in use.
Apple is innovative. Always pushing the boundaries of technology and design (form and function) in the American market. As nice as the Dell Adamo looks, it’s not the same quality build as a Macbook Pro. The case may be metal, but the keyboard isn’t as flush, it doesn’t press with ease and the trackpad still has two buttons to click. There’s no multi-touch (although they can’t get it since Apple has patented it). Most PCs don’t have firewire as even an option, when it’s standard on a Mac. You need at least firewire 400, if not 800 to do any amateur or professional HD video editing – or real-time use with external HDDs.
Anyways, I love how every post gets longer and longer. Great job with the post.
Joe Says:September 17th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Reading over some of these comments. i cant help but wonder.. what the?
I use windows and desktop PC since it is muhc cheaper then any mac and works alot better.
The only time i get a bluescreen is when i go in and start making changes to my hardware by overclocking.
Hell desktop wise im using PhII 955 and two 4870′s. before these shiny new PhII 965 and 4890′s (and soon 5870′s) were out.
Siting any of my PCs to my friends macs or mac book pro there is nothing that a PC cant do better.
Really; I can care less about apple or any major company support. So long as the companys selling me the hardware to build it have good support.
yes; you can build a laptop
Brent Scott Says:September 18th, 2009 at 12:00 am
Wow, lots of comments here. I’d like to first rebut the comment about the XEON.
@Mitch: I DO have my facts straight:
Please, note, I directly compared a SINGLE CPU Mac pro, not a dual.
The XEON 5500 and the Core i7 9xx have exactly the same architecture (Nehalem). Only 2 things are different: 1. The fact that a XEON 5500 is capable of running dual (2 CPU’s), and 2. It supports ECC RAM. That’s it. Performance-wise, there’s no difference, other than the fact that you can overclock a Core i7 to a much higher speed, but you can’t overclock the XEON because of the way it’s binned.
Notice also that I compared 2 single CPU systems. Since the main point of a XEON 5500 is going dual, what’s the point of only having one in a system? Besides ECC, it’s pretty much the same processor. There’s really no performance advantage. Look it up. Now, if you’re going for 8 cores, then the 5500 makes sense, but I wasn’t comparing the 8 core system was I?
As for the price, are you sure you aren’t looking at US Prices? I config’d that machine twice, with the same price. It’s correct.
Regarding the RAID card, are you kidding me? You really think software RAID is the same as hardware RAID? It’s not. Also, my Motherboard (ASUS Maximus) comes with HARDWARE RAID, so no, it’s not “like my motherboard”. That’s why, in order to run dual 10,000 RPM drives with good performance, I DO need a hardware RAID controller.
Please know what you’re talking about if you’re going to tell me that I don’t….
Brent Scott Says:September 18th, 2009 at 12:03 am
Just config’d the same Mac Pro again for exactly the same price: 8239.00. I did not exaggerate.
Brent Scott Says:September 18th, 2009 at 12:07 am
@Jeff: I didn’t mention in my post, but I was pricing DDR3 RAM for my custom-built system. As far as I know, Nehalem only runs on DDR3 RAM.
Brent Scott Says:September 18th, 2009 at 12:30 am
@Steve:
The statement: “Apple make most of their own hardware”, is incorrect. They make very little of it, as my post points out:
CPU: non-apple (Intel)
RAM: non-apple (Hynix, Hitachi, Micron)
Motherboard: non-apple (Intel)
Videocard: Non-apple (ATI or NVidia)
HD: non-apple
The only things I’m not sure of are the power supply and superdrive, but I’d be 99% sure these are contracted out.
So, the only real Apple hardware is the case. The fact that people think the thing is actually made by Apple is evidence of more good marketing. There’s a reason why they don’t list the manufacturers on the configure page.
You mention about your pleasant experience on your Mac as if this doesn’t happen on a PC. I run Vista64, and I also have left it on without a reboot for well over a month. It also did not slow down one bit. I only reboot it when I need to, unlike XP.
The negative hype about Vista is just that: hype. It was admittedly a turd because they released it too early, but the problems have been fixed, and it’s rock solid now. Win7 will only be better.
Also, as far as user-friendliness.. It’s a preference thing, but I don’t find OSX user-friendly at all. I have a Mac. I also have OSX in virtualization. I hate it. Period. The Dock and expose are cool, but a taskbar with your running programs (as opposed to having both like the Dock), just plain make sense. There have been lengthy usability studies on just that. The conclusion? Having both makes the most sense: The Dock for opening apps, and the Taskbar for running apps.
Only a PC with Windows or Linux can do both (unless there’s a taskbar for MAC I’m not aware of…) I use a Dock on my PC, as well as Expose (although I like Flip 3D better). My Linux installs also have both a Dock and a Taskbar. It makes the most sense. The one beef I have about Win7 is the changed taskbar. I think it was an attempt at winning make people over. I really hope the final release allows for a regular taskbar.
Whenever I use OSX, I get the feeling that the OS thinks I’m stupid and tries to prevent me from getting at things I want to. Also, the running apps that jump up to grab my attention on the Dock make me want to punch the screen (Yes, I know you can turn that off).
You also mention processing architecture, but I would like to point out again that it’s all Intel Nehalem. Same in Macs and PC’s with Core i7.
Brent Scott Says:September 18th, 2009 at 12:46 am
Arrgh.. Can’t let this go… It wasn’t supposed to be a software discussion…
Ok, Vista. This is for the PC and MAC people alike.
First off, Vista is not crap. I believe Microsoft programmers genuinely wanted to make up for Windows’ past shortcomings. They re-wrote the thing almost from the ground-up, and after using it for almost 2 years, I can definitely say it’s much better. Sure, XP is smaller and use to run games better (later benchmarks are now showing Vista at similar performance), but at the stuff I do, Vista is vastly superior.
Here’s an example: I multitask like crazy. At any given moment, I might have Photoshop, 6 browsers, Dreamweaver, Premiere, Flash, an FTP app, 4-5 Word windows, OpenOffice.org, Winamp, Windows Media, Email, and God-knows what else. On XP, my system would really bog down with too many apps open, even when I wasn’t close to my RAM limit.
When I first got my Vista laptop, I literally opened everything I had, which included the entire Adobe CS3 Master Collection, and then went back to Photoshop to do some graphics. On XP, Photoshop would be chugging at that moment. In Vista, it barely seemed to notice. This points to vastly improved memory management a’la SuperFetch. Vista is a memory hog, sure, but RAM is super cheap! It only cost a few hundred to throw 8 gigs of RAM on my 64bit desktop… What do I care if Vista is using up more RAM? I have lots more. OSX is also a much larger memory-hog than previous versions. It’s just thinking to the future.
I’ll probably upgrade to Win7, but I’m nothing but happy with Vista. It’s been rock-solid.
Brent Scott Says:September 18th, 2009 at 1:42 am
Confirmed. Mitch was looking at US prices, not Canadian.
Brent Scott Says:September 18th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Brenley, please add in the article that all prices are CDN. I had a guy call me an idiot and said I was exaggerating because the price was wrong. Some Americans don’t realize there are other countries besides theirs.
FYI, this article was originally on my Facebook profile, as a response to all my musician friends telling me a need to get a Mac. I’m simply answering the question.
I had no idea people on Digg could be such ignorant a-holes.
ooglek Says:Here are my problems with your comparison.
1. You are building it yourself, but not including the cost of your time, nor the cost of time troubleshooting hardware failures or configuration problems. I’ve rarely had no problems with hardware or integration of components when starting from scratch. That time costs money.
2. Compatibility. Maybe because you are a hardware guy, you already know what works together and what doesn’t. But that knowledge took time, and you don’t calculate that into your pricing.
3. Support. You are doing 100% of the support on your hardware. With a Mac, you get 1 year of email support and 90 days of phone support.
4. Software. While Windows 7 I’m sure will come with some nice software, there are some core technologies and valuable software that is included in the price of a Mac. How much to get photo management software with facial recognition in Windows? Or decent DVD authoring or HD Video creation? Granted, I know there are software packages available on Windows that does this, but I don’t know of any that are free and as elegant as some of the Mac versions, so you need to add in that cost.
5. Elegance and integration — that Coolermaster case is uuuuuugly. Subjective, but legit IMO.
For me, the hardware is interesting, but the whole package is where the value comes in. The fact that I can bring a non-working machine into an Apple store, usually same-day, and have someone diagnose and possibly fix it, so I don’t have to scour forums, memtest86 my memory, etc, is so very much worth the “Apple Tax” when comparing home-built hardware to Apple hardware.
If you don’t care about OSX and the included software, and you don’t mind supporting hardware/software problems yourself, you are 100% correct.
Most people do NOT have the time to learn how to put all this stuff together (think of “Claire” who got a new PC from Best Buy who got a PC because it was “cute.”), much less support it when it doesn’t work, and thus your numbers fail to include this cost.
ooglek Says:Oh yes.
6. Buy the core machine from Apple, but upgrade the video card, hard drive and memory yourself. As long as the video card is supported, this should save you a bit of money on the Apple side. I agree that their pricing for upgrading some of the components are much higher than necessary.
Nelson Says:I have one word to say about the Mac…OVERRATED!!! I was a previous Mac user and I’ve been on a PC now for about a year and I love my machine..cost me about 1200 and it runs like a champ
His point with this post was clear! Are most of you hoked on fonics?
Mesh Says:To the guy who made the Bentley analogy:
I have two cars for sale. They are built with the same out-sourced mechanical components. Leather upholstery is available that can be installed in either vehicle.
I’m selling one for $25,000. I’m selling the other one for $50,000. “Why the price difference?”. Well, the $50,000 car has an Apple logo on the door.
Mesh Says:Woah! With that price difference I’m surprised there isn’t 2 bites missing from the Apple logo.
Daniel Groves Says:November 3rd, 2009 at 11:30 am
I must now say that I would have to agree here with the Mac crowd. I have a £800 bottom of the line MacBook and it is by far faster than my PC running windows 7.
MacBook
——-
2.00GHz Core2Duo
2GB DDR3 RAM
160GB HDD @ 5400 RPM
Windows 7 Desktop
—————-
2.00GHz Core2Duo
3GB DDR2 RAM
1x 160GB HDD @ 7200 RPM
1x 60GB HDD @ 7200 RPM
1x 80GB HDD @ 7200 RPM
I can tell you now as well that not only am I much more productive on my Mac, but I also feel that all my data is much safer. I shall later on be putting Ubuntu back on my desktop. Than it will be much faster again, but I still feel that this is just not as productive to work on as on my MacBook.
I guess it is all down to preference, but you will not find me buying anything but a Mac for anything but a server.
Guy Says:November 19th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
I suppose the main reaseon people go for a Mac is the OS stability. If Windows 7 is all it’s cracked up to be (and it seems to be), then that might not continue to be a justification.
Elwanda Grappo Says:Keep the blogposts coming. I read your site often. Thanks!
Pamila Tunison Says:Thanks for the article. I’ve enjoyed your post.
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